Bar Security Staff Need Better Training (WFP Article)
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A couple of days ago, the Winnipeg Free Press ran this story about the need for Winnipeg bar security staff to have better training about the dangers of excessive force and proper restraint techniques. The reason for this inquiry stems from a 2006 incident where a Winnipeg man died after being in an altercation at a Winnipeg bar. Although the man had a heart issue, it is suspected that the force and techniques used by bouncers could have been a contributing factor in his death.
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Personally, I think being a bouncer would be one of the toughest and most thankless jobs around. Every time you go to work you would have to put up with obnoxious and disrespectful people, the hours are tough and the pay isn’t spectacular. Your own personal safety would also always be in jeopardy every time you have to respond to an issue that comes up during your shift.
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There is also a stigma that comes with the title of “Bouncer” that would be pretty hard to shake. Sure, there are lots of bouncers out there who accept bribes, use excessive force, are disrespectful for no reason and are often the biggest thugs in whatever bar they are supposed to be protecting. The truth however, is that there are also lots of good bouncers who put there own personal safety on the line to protect some guy who mouthed off to the wrong people. In any job there are workers who are good and bad at what they do and it is important to not just let a few bad people ruin the title for everyone.
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Overall, I think there needs to be a shift in peoples attitudes towards bar security. When you’re at a bar, talk to the bouncers no differently then you would talk to anyone else. Say “thank you” if they do something good and at the end of the night even a simple “have a good night!” could go a long way. If you do encounter a bad bouncer, either ignore it or deal with the issue responsibly and notify the establishments management.
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Discussion:
What is your view on “Bouncers”? Have any really good/bad experiences that you would like to share? What Winnipeg clubs do you think have the best/worst security? Have you ever worked as a bouncer?
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Share your thoughts below by Commenting on this article!
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WINNIPEG – Security personnel in drinking establishments should have better training about restraining patrons, a judge recommended in a report, released today, on the inquest into the death of a Winnipeg man in a downtown hotel lobby moments after being arrested by police.
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Russell Cook, 55, died at the St. Regis Hotel in October 2006. An autopsy revealed he suffered from heart disease combined with a “hyperexcitable state with agitation.” Alcohol and drugs were not involved.
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Provincial judge Linda Giesbrecht outlined her findings from the inquest in an 89-page report filed through Manitoba’s Fatality Inquiries Act.
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The report indicated that Cook’s pre-existing heart condition caused his death. His agitated state, as well as the position in which we was restrained — “hog-tied” on his stomach with his legs in the air — may also have been contributing factors to his heart failure, but were not the cause, the report said.
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Giesbrecht recommended that security personnel working in licensed facilities receive formal training in proper restraint technique and the dangers of using excessive force.
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Those who work in such establishments are presently exempt from the training requirements of the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act. This needs to change, Giesbrecht concluded, as do the training and licensing guidelines made by the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission for their security guards.
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The tragic incident began when Cook struck a pole, then a pedestrian, with his car in a parking lot near the hotel. He then quickly exited his vehicle and ran inside the hotel.
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Staff and patrons of the St. Regis tackled and restrained Cook after he stormed inside the lobby and began causing a disturbance. When police arrived, they were directed to the bar entrance where they found Cook being held face down on the floor. Officers handcuffed him — only to watch as he suddenly slumped to the floor.
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Paramedics performed CPR before Cook was taken to hospital and pronounced dead.
Source: Winnipeg Free Press (LINK)
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I was a bouncer for a club now it was not a registered Canad inns club I will not say whom we were told no physical force by the owners and we abided by that rule it is true we have a very bad rep and no one seems to like us but were not all bad some bouncers could use extra training but then some could just follow others I mean I was making 8.50 an hour when I bounced and that was not enough for what I put up with and the 9 hour shifts sucked boy to mention our saftey not just at work but in public is on the line I was in one bad fight when headed to work it is not a glorious job but someone has to do it and yes I would do it again if asked to I to am a licensed guard aswell though
99% of bouncers are goons. Period. most get the job just because they want to feel powerful and the only way they are going to be able to do that is by being a bouncer (since most of them didn’t graduate grade 10). If you look at a lot of issue of violence in bars it originates from bouncers.
I was at the OC, and this one guy was being dragged out by 5 or 6 bouncers for whatever reason, and I decided it was an interesting and rare event for me , so I had my camera and decided to take pictures of it.
The first picture was fine, bouncers didn’t notice,
second one though, they noticed and freaked out, then took my camera and one of them said “we should smash it.”
then I started thinking “first, smashing the camera won’t do anything to the memory card, and second, that’s a 300 some odd dollar camera so they’d be buying me a new one.”
but then they were trying to delete the pictures and couldn’t figure how to use a simple camera.
Then I had to ask if they needed help, which probably made them feel dumb.
And in 2 secs I had it done.
And the guy was nice, he just said I shouldn’t have taken the pictures, so I said sorry didn’t think about it.
Then he said one of the bouncers wanted tosmash the camera but he told them it wasn’t nessecary, and not to do it.
Which I’m quite thankful for.
But I haven’t had a personal problem with any bouncers.
I actually tend to talk to most of them when I’m all loose with some goose.
And they seem chill and don’t give me any grief.
At tiesto I was chilling and talking to some.
And even shook hands with a bunch.
I guess if you’re cool with them, and not be a dick and disrespect them, then they’re cool with you.
Atleast that’s how it is for me.
Peace
Lol, I’m interested to see how many more “99% of bouncers are goons that didn’t graduate grade ten” type comments will show up on here. You might find that in many cases “scapegoat” might be a more accurate word than goon.
I’ve been a bouncer locally for about seven years now, and can count the number of people I’ve hurt on one… well, okay maybe two hands. Most of those incidents involved people attacking me with weapons.
It’s a tough job, think about all the idiots you’ve seen in clubs, or just in general. Think about all the gang members, steroid abusers, inexperienced drinkers… or even just average people who’ve “had a bad day”. It’s our job to talk them down, get them out, and in the worst cases to throw ourselves between them and you. We’re also responsible for turning away known troublemakers from the club, and as Justin mentioned above… we have to run into those same people everywhere else around town during our daily lives.
Most of my staff work at Mystique on the weekends to help put themselves through U of M. Very few (if any) of them consider this a career. Entry-level pay is about $14 an hour, and most guys make a little more than that. When you have a problem at a club and someone asks you to leave, or even escorts you to the door, it’s easy to label him a dumb ape. The truth is, it’s impossible for us to know all the details of why someone was “looking at your girl” the wrong way, and we’re just doing our best to keep everyone safe.
As for the above article… it sounds to me like Russell Cook was what I would call “an idiot”.
“The tragic incident began when Cook struck a pole, then a pedestrian, with his car in a parking lot near the hotel. He then quickly exited his vehicle and ran inside the hotel.”
I don’t know the bouncers involved in this story, but at first glance I don’t fault them for tackling him, some people are completely irrational, and that may have been the best way to handle the situation. Restraining people in general is ridiculous… but in this case it seems like he was a danger to the public as well as their customers. Mr. Cook had just committed some fairly serious crimes (hitting someone with his car, and fleeing the scene), and holding him until police arrived was probably also the right thing to do.
In an unrelated story, those were my guys working tiesto, lol. What’s up Jared.
also, in response to Jared’s incident with the camera… I think that a lot of bouncers get frustrated by the thought of being held accountable for doing the right thing. If someone is punching you and I grab him and throw him out the door, then technically I’ve just assaulted him. I hate the formatting on this site by the way, no paragraph separation so everything looks like a giant run-on sentence. About a year ago I denied entry to a guy (actually his name was daniel mayen… because meh, fuck him). He went home and got a can of bear mace, came back and sprayed me in the face from about two feet away. I grabbed him, took him down and we held him there until the police arrived. On monday there was an article in the free press titled “Vigilante Justice” that described how I had overstepped my boundaries by restraining the guy. The reporter left a voicemail on my cell asking whether it had “felt good to hold that guy down”. For the record nothing feels good when you’re soaked in bear mace. Anyhow, my point was that it’s pretty common for events to get misinterpreted, and if you saw cell-phone footage of say… someone at the St regis holding down mr cook, you might be inclined to forget he’d just mowed someone down with his car. *shrug* Bouncers should be just as accountable for their actions as everyone else. Just make sure you get the whole story. Cheers.
I personally have found that the bouncers in winnipeg do their job well, with the exclusion of canad inns clubs. Repeatively I see bouncers at Canad inns bars abusing their measures of authority. One reason could be that most of their bouncers are just old enough to get in a bar! Anyone agree?
I have spent 10 years or so promoting inside of clubs, venues, the arena, Convention Centre, etc. and have found a wide variety of bouncers. Unfortunately bouncing is another thing in life that when something bad happens everyone concentrates on that one or two things and everyone ignores the other 300+ days out of the year nothing happens.
I think there should be some standard but I would think it should be the Head of Security that must be trained to this standard then the HOS would train his staff. You can usually tell the difference between a meat head and a guy that enjoys being in the club and doesn’t have a problem helping people.
I had one of the worst publicized disputes with bouncers at a Winnipeg club in recent memory but I’m not going to judge 99% of bouncers out there based on that one club full of meat heads and morons.
I’ve seen bouncers do more good than bad because in essence that’s the point of the job. 99% (LOL) of these guys don’t want to fight. They like the environment but don’t mind dealing with problems.
As a side note, grease bouncers if they do something good for you. They have a far more dangerous job than bartenders and servers but make very little in grease.
Without a doubt the worst bouncers in Winnipeg are at Whiskey Dix. They are rude and are the worst for accepting bribes, unnecessarily holding a line, and letting all their friends in without having to wait. Although it has never been an issue for me (I am a girl) I have gone to the club before and had the bouncers turn away guys friends of mine for no good reason. They don’t stick to their 21+ rule and only enforce it when they feel like it. It is tood bad that the bar is the best in Winnipeg or else nobody would put up with this shit.
I have to agree with Vanessa. Whiskey Dix Bouncers are the worst!!!! They are way too agressive. I was there this past weekend and witnessed them dragging out a bride who was there for her stagette. I’m not sure of the circumstances but she was fighting back as I would have too as they were grabbing her by the arm pulling her across the dance floor. Sure she may have been drunk but there were 6 bouncers dragging out a girl. 6 bouncers that were 200 lbs plus and well over 6 feet tall. Is this really necessary?? I heard her say please let me go and I will go out on my own. Some other girl from her group was asking them to stop and what did the bouncers do?? Almost broke her arm. The bouncers did nothing but make the situation worse. They were threatening to kick her outside in minus 40 without her jacket, they were threatening to call the police?? For what cause she was drunk. Get the girl some water, have her sit down for a bit and talk to her calmly inside of using such force that would piss off any drunk or sober person for that matter. I was disgusted with these guys. Shortly before that I seen them shove a guy out of the bar. Again I don’t know why but it was absolutly crazy!!! Another thing for these bouncers to think about what if someone had a health condition they should not be using such force. No one knows of anyone’s medical condition by looking at them. Many people have bleeding disorders, many people are on meds that make their blood very thin. They could have caused major internal bleeding or other complications. I am very surprised this girl and her friends did not go to the police. I did see some people in the bar taking pictures I would love to see these published or sent to the police.
I also was at Whisky Dix last weekend and saw the guy they threw out without his coat also, when i walked outside 3 of them had this guy against a metal fence, when they let him go, the guy swore at them and one of them then went after him as he tried to get in a cab, they even let a bystander take a swing at him. Lucky for him he had a friend who got in the middle and basically told the bouncers, they don’t want to be doing this…. this caused one of the bouncers to come to his senses and pulled the other bouncer away.
These guys were out of control and for sober people working there…were no better than a pack of wolves attacking this poor guy and at least 2 of them were probably 6’5″ +
Yes those guys are over 6’5″. The thing I don’t understand is I know one of them is a Fire Fighter/paramedic. Why they hell would you want to be a bouncer in the bar??? Why would you want to risk your reputation in your day job? I have also heard that another bouncer is related somehow to a member of the Winnipeg Police. Something to think about. Maybe this is how they get away with what they do. Something needs to be done about these guys. The managers of Whiskey Dix obviously DO NOT CARE as this happens weekend after weekend. All the care about is the money they are bringing in.
I’ve worrked at two other bars and i’m currently working at Republic. To say that were just morans goons and thugs is wrong. It’s true one bad apple ruins it for all. It’s sad that we are treated like doormats. I personally love my job and being in the club atmosphere thats why I do it. Out of the 2 yrs that I’ve been working as a bouncer I’ve always been able to talk to people without having to resort to restraining or using violence as a way to get them to leave the club. To hear about all the negative comments towards bouncers is hurtful we do put up with a lot of bs if it wasn’t for us doing our job the club atmosphere would be unsafe. Out of the 2 years I’ve been doing this job I’ve been in only 2 fights and those two times were out of self defence. I’ve always had a golden rule that I follow for my self and thats whats made me one of the “good bouncer” no mattter how bad the patrons treat me were offer a service and the customer comes first they are willing to choose my work place for a place to unwind and drink and have fun so I treat them with respect always! even if they are drunk and getting in my face and I have to ask them to leave for whatever reason I’ve never thrown anybody out with out a coat and I’ve never thrown anybody out with out making sure they had somebody to take care of them and a way for them to get home. Most of the bouncers I work with have this attitude and if they dont head of security will either get them to change there attitude or we get rid of them. I beleive this is probably one of the contributing factors to why republic is voted #1 club in the city for 09
Check out my response in the forums section
http://winnipegnightlife.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=358#post358
It’s a long one so I decided to post it there instead
I have been a doorman for almost 7 years. I started in my second year of University and have continued throughout my undergrad and now finishing my masters. I have worked with big goons, and those on a power trip, however a significant majority are just regular guys who put up with huge amounts of BS for the least amount of money. It’s not typical to want to run into a huge brawl to protect the very patrons who speak poorly of you, to stand in front of the patron with a bottle in their hand to save a stranger, to protect the interest of the bar owners who, in turn, pay very little. Being a doorman is like being an offensive lineman – all work, no glory.
That being said, training is, in my opinion, desperately needed. However, with training comes increased costs for ‘professional’ security staff who are well equipped to handle various situations both verbally and physically if warranted. No one wants to pay for this because it will ultimately have to come from the patrons through increased drink prices, cover charges, etc. In a volume business where cash is king and average life duration of bars in 3 – 4 years, increasing prices to facilitate training and education of security staff is a poor business decision.
There are other tools that can help to filter out the troublemakers that I’ve seen in other cities – pat downs, ID scanners, private memberships, but those don’t fly here in the Peg, but I digress.
I salute my fellow brethren in black who put their lives on the line for little to no appreciation; all work, and no glory.